Changing the time = Changing the show
Mandoric wrote commentary as a followup to how Geass went NOT AS PLANNED about changing a show when moving the timeslot. This was done by my request after seeing some of the responses to interview write-up asking why a show would need to change when moving to a new timeslot. Mandoric is an industrynerdfag who ran a panel at Otakon called Anime is Serious Business. If you’ve visited ADTRW, you might’ve read something written by him before.
Someone also wanted commentary on what it realistically means to move a show’s airtime like this. In particular, I’ll be discussing a move from late night to primetime. From a business standpoint for Sunrise in particular, it’s not too horrible—it’s not like they didn’t own the Sat-6 timuslot that Sun-5 was converted from all the way back to when SEED started. It’s just a matter of not picking up another SF or action project to animate for the mass market, and putting Geass there instead; frankly, given how horribly things like Ayakashi or To the Terra did, it’s not like Geass’s ratings failure is even a major downgrade.
The main issue is that a fair amount of viewers will assume that if they missed 1 they can afford to miss 2 too.
From the perspective of the creative, on the other hand, it’s a kick in the nuts, especially to poor Taniguchi who’s, at this point, probably just desperately slopping whatever the bosses and the fanbase want on a storyboard, between the late changes to Geass and the failure of Planetes.
Any sort of reliance on the plot of season 1, or at least of portions that can’t be summarized in an episode or two, goes out the window—if you’re looking to double viewership, and still have everyone know what’s going on, you’ve got to start anew. If you ended S1 on a cliffhanger, this also means you have to completely change plans. And of course, the easiest way to make it so that seeing S1 was unnecessary is to retell it.
Especially as Sunrise’s lead show, a move to the showcase time is basically a veiled demand from management to start selling -lots- of toys, and appealing to the preteen audience to some degree in order to facilitate that. Even going into S2 with an established extremely DVD-heavy sales mix, and even though other original efforts have done similarly horribly, management is going to start being severely unhappy about the lack of return on the extra few hundred thousand dollars an ep they’re wasting on a better slot. On standard production schedule, the hammer will have start to come down around ep 12. Of course, this also leads to writing aimed at a somewhat younger crowd, and more self-censorship.
Finally, although I haven’t gone over credits deeply, I would presume that non-outsourced portions changed to Sunrise’s lead teams, which also would have left prenty of room for miscommunication and being on different pages.
Tags: Industry
Serious Business | miasmacloud | 
August 20, 2008 12:14 am
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風の谷の名無しさん (August 20, 2008 @ 7:57 am)
> Especially as Sunrise’s lead show, a move to the showcase time is basically a veiled demand from management to start selling -lots- of toys
Well, that’s a nice explanation for the sudden super robot explosion. It’s not like there was any hint of all that bullshit in season 1, and Lancelot was treated as a big exception because it was a prototype and not mass-produced. Which makes no sense in the context of R2, where custom robots seem to be the rule rather than the exception.
Come to think of it, has Lancelot really done anything remarkable at all in R2?
Also, from some of the rumours I’ve encountered, though, that doesn’t seem the toy-selling plan has worked out very well, either.
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dgh (August 20, 2008 @ 12:16 pm)
blow up tokyo
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風の谷の名無しさん (August 20, 2008 @ 1:00 pm)
Anybody could have blown up Tokyo!
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Whocares (August 20, 2008 @ 8:04 am)
On the bright side, liking the show even after all that’s got to count for something. Or nothing. Or it doesn’t matter either way.
About the Super Robots…maybe we would have seen less models and not all of them would be flying under the original plans, but I don’t think they’d be completely absent. We already had flight technology and Hadron Cannons by the end of season one.
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Spleener (August 20, 2008 @ 9:34 am)
Yeah, the super robot inflation probably would have happened anyway, I think.
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Volbla (August 20, 2008 @ 11:00 am)
Well, true. And after Gawain it was obvious they were actively researching new models, although there probobly wouldnt have been as many of them as you say.
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QQ (August 20, 2008 @ 10:56 am)
Super Robots make the show better anyway. :<
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les (August 20, 2008 @ 7:47 pm)
gundam 00 and destiny prove that super robots look nice for 30 secs before u turning into dbz with pretty colours jus no legit story line… and thats what everyone loved about geass to behonest i’m depressed it wasn’t done as originally intended, but as a fan of geass i still hold the firm belief that it’ll be able to pull one outta ita @$$ by the end…..
or at least kill suzaku and nina ;P
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Dakkar (August 20, 2008 @ 9:28 pm)
I wonder why this topic was brought up only after 19 (!!!) episodes of the show have been aired. Time slot shift and related issues weren’t a secret even before R2 launched, so why everyone kept silent?
On a side note… 3.6% for ep. 19? The season’s highest rating? Hm, looks like tons of people were eagerly waiting for Rolo’s death…
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miasmacloud (August 20, 2008 @ 9:39 pm)
I think it’s a big deal because of the interview in the Roman Album, all of a sudden.
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Dakkar (August 20, 2008 @ 10:11 pm)
Confirmed suspicions, eh? Still, we can’t neglect possibility that the director is just trying to push the guilt for not-as-good-as-expected season on someone’s else shoulders. It looks particularly fishy because show is still airing and I can only guess what producers should think about his statements.
Unless it’s just another PR action. When I think about it, the first time I saw Korean spoilers I went like “WTF?! If something like that was to happen, who would watch this?”. But as they were repeated over and over, you’re getting used to all the nonsense and when it eventually appears on screen… Well, the reaction is not as bad as it could be.
Makes me wonder what kind of ending they are planning if the director is already whining about his hard life…
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miasmacloud (August 20, 2008 @ 11:30 pm)
LtEagle said it best, imo:
And that alone is why I kind of regret posting the interview. I wasn’t exactly expecting people to treat this as “the answer to their prayers” or something about why they don’t like Geass, as there’s no guarantee they’d like it better even if it had gone Taniguchi’s way.
On the other hand, we have people like Kaioshin Sama saying this:
I don’t like Kaioshin, at all, but this statement is just completely unfounded without a) seeing how R2 ends first, and b) knowing what the original plan was.
I think all the interview does, without getting into my own bias/opinions, is justify the people who felt the early half of the series was a rehash of S1. It justifies them in it was “supposed” to feel this way due to the timeslot switch.
風の谷の名無しさん (August 21, 2008 @ 4:38 am)
Whoa, it really did jump all the way to 3.6% all of a sudden. I’d stopped following the ratings because they seemed to have settled at just over 2%, and then suddenly this.
Perhaps the shitstorm over nuking Tokyo stirred up some interest?
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Kaioshin Sama (August 21, 2008 @ 1:17 am)
Ah the ways in which I get linked to this site. You wouldn’t imagine. Anyway short story, you can make a quote look like anything when you take it out of it’s proper context. Let’s fix that shall we:
“I mostly find it amusing that Code Geass R2 could rebound from something like having it’s original script scrapped and yet something like say….ummmm….Dragonaut the Resonance could apparently have been exactly what Gonzo had in mind and yet it turned out to be an absolute disaster of uninspired concepts that went nowhere. That’s what I find depressing about the state the anime industry is in right now. When a show that runs into major production trouble turns out to be more enjoyable and popular then the average anime you know the industry just isn’t bringing it’s A game. Then again I’m one of those people that think Sunrise and it’s employees don’t sell their original creations as short as your average anime studio and are used to this kind of thing happening so I can’t say I’m too surprised.
Come to think of it I can’t remember a Sunrise original mecha series that didn’t have some sort of bullshit condition happen that put a lot of pressure on the staff to perform well beyond what should have been expected on them. Whether it’s somebody dying during production ala 8th MS or the director changing 4 times ala 0083, cancellation like the Ideon, Gundam, Layzner and Gundam X, a deliberate shuffling of events to fit a project a few years down the line like ZZ Gundam, internal upheaval like Gundam Wing, sudden bailout from the west with an unexpected audience to please like The Big O, getting turned into a movie instead of a TV series like F91…..the list just goes on. Even stranger is that a number of these series are considered to have gotten better as a result of whatever went wrong during their production or at least eventually better in the long run. Better add Code Geass to the long long list then…..”
That’s the proper quote complete with the beginning part about all the times they’ve had production trouble in their series that I can recall off the top of my head and come out with something reasonably enjoyable despite it all. My opinion obviously. As for “better add Code Geass to the long long list”, I was referring to the list of series where the bullshit condition happens. It is obviously far to early to add it to a list of series that turned out well in the end considering we haven’t seen the end yet. Though I’m sure a lot of your folks here have already made up their minds.
By the way, disturbingly enough I actually agree with you on something, although I already reached this conclusion beforehand. Essentially the interview indeed does nothing but justify whatever opinion somebody had before it broke. If you liked the series beforehand then obviously the fact that some of it was reshuffled isn’t going to change that, but if you didn’t then it can be used as a reason to further express discontent. That’s about the extent of how it’s applicable to the show we have now. And of course it reads more like a simple expression of humility then anything else I can think of so the interview is pretty much up to how you choose to interpret it, personal biases and all. Okay?
Now will you stop obsessing over me and the things I say for crying out loud? It give me the creeps……
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miasmacloud (August 21, 2008 @ 1:43 am)
Your quote is not misrepresented or misinterpreted or taken out of context at all. All the full does is add “the list” you were referring back to. The point still stands that you are adding Geass to that list too early for anyone to call. Looks like we, apparently “disturbingly”, agree there too, because even you say this in your above reply that it’s obviously too early to add it. If that’s what you think/feel, why even make a comment like “hum better add [xxx]” to begin with?
And honestly, obsess over you and the things you say? If I was doing that, this reply - as well as every reply I have ever written directed towards you - would be a lot longer.
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Kaioshin Sama (August 21, 2008 @ 2:10 am)
Because I’m adding it to the list of series that have had production trouble that I personally find enjoyable anyway. It is a subjective list after all and I think I know my list of shows I enjoy better then anyone. And it’s not like I’m saying that the show goes on the list and everybody has to find it an enjoyable show because I do. I think where the hang up in communication here is is that “enjoyable” and “turned out well” are being interpreted as the same list. The “turned out better/well” list is a subsection of the list of series I enjoyed that happened to have production trouble. Perhaps though I should rephrase that paragraph to better show what I actually meant as it does look rather confusing and ambiguous at second glance:
“Even stranger is that a number of these series are considered to have gotten better as a result of whatever went wrong during their production or at least eventually better in the long run. Perhaps if we follow Schrodinger’s law then Code Geass could have conceivably ended up better then it was originally going to be as a result of these rewrites. Then again perhaps not, but until we’ve seen what Taniguchi had in mind it’s impossible to know. Better add Code Geass to the long long list of series I enjoyed despite production trouble then…
That was what was going through my mind when I wrote that after 22 straight hours of being awake.
Would I have enjoyed it more or less with the original plans? I don’t know and probably never will. Will I enjoy the finale? Again no idea as I haven’t seen it yet. Will I still have enjoyed the show by the end of it all? At this point I can say probably.
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miasmacloud (August 21, 2008 @ 2:57 am)
1) Insomnia writing? Gotcha, I confused the DVD sales for the Fan DVD last night on ADTRW from insomnia writing.
2) Someone reminded me of an old poll I ran here about a month ago. The poll was titled, “Why are you watching Geass?”
These are the results:
With that in mind…
You’ve made it apparent at various forums and [whatever] what you think of this blog, and the people who read it… So, I think it’s pretty obvious what you’re implying here, and it’s not really positive. Yet, when I look at those poll results from last month and read comments, I see something completely different than you see. Otherwise, I see eye to eye with you in that a lot of “my folks” have made up their mind, and I’m sure they’ll all enjoy it in their own individual way.
風の谷の名無しさん (August 21, 2008 @ 4:32 am)
“Obsessing over you”? Your sense of self-importance seems just a little bit overinflated. You weren’t even mentioned until one of your fans showed up and talked about you.
PS: Learn to state your thoughts concisely. A wall of text is not in any way indicative of any kind of insight - it is, in fact, the opposite. Hiding your view in excessive verbiage is a sure sign that you don’t have much to say in the first place.
What you wanted to say could have been said in one fourth as many words, and you would have looked far better for doing so.
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Xiayohen (August 21, 2008 @ 2:24 am)
Random anime watcher here. ;0
Sad that you guys dropped this series (Everything’s going krazy!!111! @_@;), but just wanted to say thanks for taking your time to sub this since the beginning of S1, and even doing a remake of S1 on DVD.
koda, I’ll never forget the daily lulz I find on this blog everyday about random things that associated with this anime. =P Will there be moar later?!
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Jayle (August 21, 2008 @ 3:18 am)
It’s about time they dropped this horrible series. I’ve been waiting to hear it for a while.
Hopefully this blog will die as well. Who actually reads this shit?
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miasmacloud (August 21, 2008 @ 3:20 am)
>>Jayle
>>PrincessSchneizel@FTW.com
10/10, I lol’d.
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Jayle (August 21, 2008 @ 3:28 am)
It was supposed to be a secret, omgz. :(
Daniel (August 21, 2008 @ 2:36 am)
“Even stranger is that a number of these series are considered to have gotten better as a result of whatever went wrong during their production or at least eventually better in the long run.”
Wait what? I know this is a clash of opinions, but seriously though, only Gundam X turned out to be pretty awesome from the list you presented. Yes, even the 08th MS Team had problems (mainly last episode and ‘forced’ romance bullshit that the Japanese seem to love so much).
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hinode (August 21, 2008 @ 5:16 am)
What this definately explains are those magazine interviews aroound/right after the first season where Taniguchi talked about the second one being the second half of the show instead of a new season with episode 26 instead of R2 episode 1. THAT plan obviously shifted.
That said, from the perspective of someone who watches Geass exclusively for the unintentional comedy factor, I do think the reboot has improved it. The change resulted in more goofy Ashford episodes that don’t impact the plot in the long run and probably yielded more characters like Rolo to an already overstuffed cast, which in turn resulted in more goofy scenarios like all the Black Knights forgetting about Kallen for approx. 1/3 the show aside from Laksharta.
Oh, and would we have gotten NANI, MAI HUNNI in the original plan? I don’t think so.
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A disappointed fan (August 21, 2008 @ 11:05 am)
I have to say that learning all this really is quite a letdown. I truly wish that this info had come out long ago. It makes sense now since I have sort of felt that there was something off this season when I looked back on season 1. Of course the first season had its flaws, but I was still able to enjoy it all. That hasn’t been the case so much this season.
I have to wonder what actually was able to be kept in the show, though perhaps not in the same form as it was originally intended. I wonder for instance if C.C.’s wish was always going to be what it ended up being. The change in the show could possibly explain the way C.C.’s role was decreased to the point where she was pretty much just there and how Kallen’s screentime increased by a large amount (though an aspect of this is likely also because her development was moved to R2).
I have to wonder whether some of the deaths we witnessed were not supposed to happen. Nunnally’s for instance seemed off to me and given that they kept giving little hints to there being something hidden about Nunnally, I think that besides some of the other plotlines a one involving her was left out.
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Whocares (August 21, 2008 @ 11:41 am)
Because nobody knows and we’re all reduced to our own BS.
C.C.’s wishing to die is the standard wish for immortals in most fiction, so the chances of that not being the wish seem low.
It could be that it would have been revealed in a different way or that C.C. would have been given more screen time, maybe without the memory loss, but I don’t see why the change in time slot would matter for the wish.
If anything C.C.’s wishing for assisted suicide is still too dark of a subject. I would think execs would want to tone that down, not up.
It was kinda obvious that they were going to give Kallen more focus, but the series isn’t over to say that C.C. has nothing more to do.
About Nunnally dying, I still don’t think that is a real death, nor do I see why the time slot would lead to it against Taniguchi’s will.
I don’t think Taniguchi had the entire script for R2 ready under his desk, he had some ideas which he changed, and others which he hadn’t even considered in the first place, but that doesn’t mean everything we don’t like “isn’t supposed to happen”.
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Max (October 17, 2008 @ 12:54 am)
If Code Geass ever comes back again with Lelouch, it will likely take place after Stage 25 of the first season in an alternate universe, like Mai Hime. I would leve for the new timeline to go back to the original feel of season one. This way I would consider R2 as non-canon and consider the new version as the “Planned” version.
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Konakona (November 10, 2008 @ 3:04 am)
So Taniguchi-san changed the entire R2 show.
And it is called a trainwreck.
But R2 still has a production work left.
What does that mean?
He’ll showcase the “original” plot he has for R2 just to satisfy fans’ needs of molding the season two story from the not-so-boring season one storyline since it was labeled “trainwreck”?
To Taniguchi-san, congratulations.
Killing Lelouch for a rating was a good idea, wasn’t it? .___.
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